Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 26 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 506 Today's Topics: ARJ? ARJ? K.I.S.S.! Atari Laser Printer for Sale CPX Information GEM Font Inquire functions Is Fcopy PRO a demo or not Looking for Colin Hunt Lost Boys Final Mega-Demo: Can't make it to run ... MEGA STE Screen Problem Solved?????? MIDI Music (was "What to buy next...") Moniterm VY1000 (1987 model) - attach to ST? People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) Question about SST board from GBS (2 msgs) Replacing the internal drive Sound player for 11khz? ULTIMATE ST SYSTEM FOR SALE (with additions)! Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Sep 91 16:36:48 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz) Subject: ARJ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <3080@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes: >larserio@IFI.UIO.NO (LarsErikOsterud) writes: >|The reason we want ARC, ZMODEM, LHARC etc as TOS programs is that you can't >|use a GEM program inside lets say a BBS or an automatic comm-program >Wrong. >It's possible (and eminently desirable, if you ask me) to write programs >like this which work both textually from a command line and graphically >from the desktop. It's not even very hard. ken is of course correct. i am not sure i'd buy "eminently desirable" tho. it is not desirable at all for me, personally. >Reading this thread, I'm wondering where this idea came from. Why is it >that y'all think that if a program uses GEM it's unthinkable for the >same program to work with arguments from a CLI? unfortunately it came from you. you should have defined "integrated GEM" in your original post. now that we understand what u meant, it becomes clear (and reasonably desirable :-). and i get some of the blame for jumping to conclusions, i s'pose. i was just thinking of the ensuing mess that would result if all archivers on the ST would become hopelessly GEM-ized (only) with none of the provisions you point out here. also, using alcyon, i have NEVER been able to get a gem program to read args. the few times i tried i got bus errors. maybe the gemstart i wuz using was hosed or maybe (no it couldn't be!) i made some grievous error. it is certainly NOT documented in my dev kit (admittedly ancient - 1986). anyway, i stopped trying. besides, i see the desktop so rarely (just when i click on my CLI after a boot) i never pursued it any further. i have officially abandoned alcyon. and i vow to try gcc on this matter... -bill rosenkra@convex.com -- Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 16:18:12 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz) Subject: ARJ? K.I.S.S.! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <3079@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes: >Just as you aren't saying don't make ARJ use from the desktop impossible >(wow, TRIPLE negative! My 8th grade English teacher would be shocked), >I'm saying PLEASE include a GEM UI in ARJ *along with the command line >options*. this is acceptable. however you should have been this precise in your initial statement which prompted a rather self-centered response from new zealand and later my vehement tirade :-). i only see two problems here. first, burrying GEM code in a an application making it "bisexual", if you will, makes it larger (obviously). bundling the gem user interface for like programs (all archivers pretty much do the same thing) in a separate shell seems like a better approach, though it may make installation slightly more complicated. it is also easier to tack on GEM support for new programs this way without having to reprogram each code. the current gem shells are centrally maintained and thus offer consistent user interfaces (less chance of confusion). the other problem is that i fear gem code and the application will get hopelessly intermingled making it impossible to port to non-GEM platforms. that is assuming source is even distributed. >Nobody wants to take your CLI away from you what a relief!!! >Please, it's not that hard to make a program do double duty as a GEM >program with menus and windows and icons and as a CLI program with a >bewildering set of confusing switches that you have to look up every >time you want to use the program for something different. i don't find this as a problem but then i CAN see how it would be for some, maybe many end users. hence my recommendation for a shell. >I like to encourage programmers to make their programs easier for the >majority of users to use, because that makes the ST a better machine. agreed. tho a "majority of users" encompasses a community beyond the ST, especially for archivers. also, IF atari plans on ever releasing some flavor of UNIX in the future, it will be in your best interest to educate users on using CLIs anyway. it could mean something as simple as an GEM based set of manpages and better .ttp dialogs. i really don't see a way around CLI use in unix at some point (i.e. sys admin). who knows, atari might suprise us :-). >For a general-purpose tool like an archiver, it's important that a lot >of people will be able to use it by double clicking on its icon from >the desktop, looking up the options in the menus, performing familiar >operations in windows and dialogs. Graphical shells are nice as far >as they go, but that's just one more level of indirection, and one >more thing for the user to have to know (where did I put that archive >program, anyways...). you have to draw the line somewhere. if your installation instructions are sufficiently clear in the shell, this should not be a problem. most GEM-only users have no idea what a PATH is so they tend to lump all their tools in a few places. i know i did way back when i first got my ST. of course i didn't go for long before i had a CLI (like maybe a week or 2). >Keep it simple. Put it in one program, with an embedded resource >file, and make it work graphically from the desktop, or textually >from a shell. again, i have no problem IFF the gem code can be totally compartmentalized in one are. how about something like: % cc -DBISEXUAL ... #ifdef BISEXUAL #include "gemmain.c" /* this MUST go before main() */ #endif /*BISEXUAL*/ main (int argc, char *argv[], char *env[]) { /* "normal" main */ } /* rest of the application here... any output should go to stdout as usual */ #ifdef BISEXUAL #include "gemcode.c" /* this goes at the bottom of the file */ #endif /*BISEXUAL*/ put this in gemmain.c: /* this is the first function in the file, BEFORE original main */ main (int argc, char *argv[], char *env[]) { if (argc < 1) /* or other appropriate test for GEMness */ gem_main (); else tos_main (argc, argv, env); } /* this will eliminate duplicate main() */ #define main tos_main and have this in gemcode.c: /* put gem-specific includes, globals, etc here...*/ gem_main() { /* gem main, including screen hold before exit */ appl_init(); ... appl_exit(); } /* ALL other GEM code here... */ if i do "cc -UBISEXUAL -E ..." i should see the original application. keep tos_main() to be the original code's main program and keep gem_main totally separate. there are probably better ways, tho this should work reasonably well. this is quite "non-intrusive" (adding just 6 lines to a .ttp or .tos application). comments, ken??? could this be a new standard programming practice? :-) -bill rosenkra@convex.com -- Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 14:17:31 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!olivea!isc-br!michaela@arizona.edu (Michael Albo) Subject: Atari Laser Printer for Sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I thought I would try this once by itself. Atari SLM804 Laser Printer This only has about 2100 pages printed on it and has just had a new cartridge put in it. $650 (Requires a least an ST with 2 meg of memory or more.) THIS IS AN EXCELLENT PRINTER ! Terms are C.O.D. and the buyer must pay shipping. send email or contact me directly. My email address is: michaela@isc-br.isc-br.com My home phone is (509) 928-8009 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 11:13:22 GMT From: noao!asuvax!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!dkuug!aud.dk!soren@arizona.ed u (Soeren Michelsen) Subject: CPX Information To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This is my first attempt to post anything on the net. Please bear with me if you don't see this - and if you do bear with me anyway :-) Where do I find information on CPX module programming? Are there any public information available or do you have to pay $300 or so to get the docs from Atari Corp? If you know the answers to my problems please leave them here or even better mail me. Thanx! ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 13:58:55 GMT From: noao!asuvax!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!dkuug!aud.dk!soren@arizona.ed u (Soeren Michelsen) Subject: GEM Font Inquire functions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've been working on a new terminal program for the ST with the following specs: GEM based, prog & acc, VT52/ANSI/+FULL+ VT100 with VT220 subset (DEC compatible fonts included for most languages), XYZmodem transfer, script files etc. It will be released as a shareware offer when I've done with the initial coding. Currently Term/ST (as it is called) runs on mono ST's only (I wrote my own screen I/O in the window - standard v_gtext() being is *much* to slow for high speed modeming) but I expect it to run on most STs later on. I'll probably make this an option, e.g. one could switch on a special 'compatibility mode' which would make Term/ST use only standard GDOS fonts. Current I am stuck with an 8x14 font - these enables me to emulate a 78x24 terminal, adequate for most VT100 editors. Now, I have some problems which I hope some of you could help me with: 1) Where do I find the number of available fonts within the application? Their names, ID's etc. - I'd like to present the user with a choice of fonts to pick from. 2) How do I tell the correct font height (GEM will let me set strange heights - which make the font appear smeared?!) 3) My application sees AC_CLOSE messages AFTER the desktop has been taken over by a double clicked .PRG application. Am I doing something wrong here - I thought AC_CLOSE messages was sent to .ACCs *before* the Desktop was closed down? Any help would be appreciated! ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 15:24:27 GMT From: mcsun!unido!edfd!volker@uunet.uu.net (Volker Schmidt) Subject: Is Fcopy PRO a demo or not To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I heard rumours, that the DEMO of Fcopy PRO couldn't handle double-sided (DS) disks, only single-sided were handled. Maybe you try this.... -volker -- Volker Schmidt | UUCP: volker@edfd.uucp eckard-design GmbH | Reesbergstrasse 1 | X400: c=de; admp=dbp; prmd=uni-giessen; D-W-6400 Fulda 1 | ou=fhfd; s=schmidt; g=volker ------------------------------ Date: 26 Sep 91 14:01 UT From: /PN=COLIN.W.HUNT/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TMAILUK/C=GB/@sprint.com Subject: Looking for Colin Hunt To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm Here! Could you try sending an email to the address in the header as I'm not sure what format it will be. If this works we can then talk directly. Colin ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 18:49:49 GMT From: noao!asuvax!gatech!swrinde!mips!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern! faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!lsmichae@arizona.edu (Lars Michael) Subject: Lost Boys Final Mega-Demo: Can't make it to run ... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've downloaded thie demo yesterday, and tried to run (in color mode obviously 8-)). The loading screen was shown. I hit a key to continue to the main demo and my ST returned to the desktop and hang up 8-((( I don't think I've done something wrong. I suppose it's the wrong TOS version ... BTW: I'm running TOS 2.05 with 4 Megs. Any help? --- Larry +----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+ | lsmichae@faui43.uni-erlangen.de | | | | | | Lars "Mr. GIF" Michael | | | | "Down with ATARI, | | Graduate Student of Computer Science | / | \ Long live the ST !" | | at University of Erlangen/Germany | / | \ | +----------------------------------------+----------------------------------| | Bones: "Damn it, Kirk, I'm a doctor, not a very good actor." | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 12:52:37 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!alp!johnj@uunet.uu.net (John Janssen) Subject: MEGA STE Screen Problem Solved?????? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have been a happy ST user for years and I (still) see the MEGA STE as a very good upgrade of it. So, in May or June this year I bought my MEGA STE, and the first thing i noticed was the screen shifting problem. I reported it to the net. I got a lot of 'me too' reactions. So we all know that this is a general MEGA STE problem. Thanks to LarsErik we all know all(?) the symptoms and what the actual wrong chip is. Now what did I do: First I tried to convince my local dealer that it indeed is a problem. Unfortunality, all MEGA STEs he had in stock had the same screen shifting problem. He called Atari in the Netherlands (called 'Atari Benelux') and they denied the problem and said that it 'was the software being not compatible with the new TOS'. That was in June (I think). Then summer came, stil working happy with my new MEGA STE except for that screen shifting problem that shows up in some programs. In the end of August I visited the 'Atari Messe' in Dusseldorf Germany, and to my suprise 'Atari Benelux' was there as well. I talked about my problem and asked for a solution. We also talked about the news on the net (as they knew the postings). I spoke to Wilfred k. Kilwinger (support manager) and he told me that they were having a meeting in Dusseldorf with Atari USA to see what could be done to it. (they prefered a low cost solution like adding caps instead of the costly chip replacements). A week later I did ring him to ask of the conclusion of the meeting. He was very friendly and he told that indeed there must have been a group of MEGA STE computers which did have a wrong shifter chip. An older chip which requires more extra components was placed on boards which did require the newer chip (which shouldnot need all these extra electronic components). He promised me to send a new chip to my local dealer who could replace it then. I waited a week, but did not hear anything. So I first rang my local dealer's technician, but he said he had not received anything. So I rang Atari again, but found out that Kilwinger had left for holiday soon after our phone call (which could have been the reason for not having sent the chip). They first conected me to a technician which did not know the problem at all, but later I was connected to a person called Honnebeke (or alike). He did knew about the problem and promised me to send the chip to my local dealer. So last week, my local dealer had received the chip and I brought my MEGA STE in. The technician was a fine chap and I was there when he replaced the chip (after worktime!). The first thing we looked for was if the chip was labeled different. It was: one whole letter! That did look promising. After a real hard work to get the chip out of the socket (this took more then 20 minutes), he replaced the chip. After closing the box, the MEGA STE was reconnected and switched on. Now an application was started and there it was... the screen shift problem still alive. My MEGA STE is still not repaired! So, after four months at least one step has been making forward: Atari no longer denies the problem. I hope that the next step will be a good replacement for the chip. My shifter chip was labeled: 9101 AMB C301712-001 (c)ATARI 1990 -31 160608-1 The new one had 'ALB' instead of 'AMB' on the first line. That's all for now. john I forget to say that all people of Atari were very friendly and tried to be helpful. It is so sory that the problem is still there. -- John Janssen Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl The Netherlands Work: +31 40 756588 Atari Mega STE, MIDI, C-lab Notator and Unitor. Home: +31 77 513177 Lattice C and many more. -- -- John Janssen Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl The Netherlands ------------------------------ Date: 26 Sep 91 14:08 UT From: /PN=COLIN.W.HUNT/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TMAILUK/C=GB/@sprint.com Subject: MIDI Music (was "What to buy next...") To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu One of our local schools (Bournemouth School) has a MIDI workshop within their music department. It contains 12 ST computers and zero other makes. One of the teachers belongs to our User group (BaPAUG) and brings along new MIDI software that the school purchases for us to look at. We (BaPAUG) also run a MIDI show once a year inorder to demonstrate the abilities of the Atari. I say Atari as a small part of the evening usually involves the use of an 130XE with MIDIMaster. However, the show goes down really well - we normally advertise on the local radio and in the press. If Atari can't sell their computers we should help as in the end it helps us all. Bye for now Colin Hunt ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 15:35:39 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!wsu-cs!jake!pbh@arizona.edu (Patrick Haggood) Subject: Moniterm VY1000 (1987 model) - attach to ST? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have access to a surplus VY1000 by Moniterm corp. This monitor has the small D connector (RBG I believe). I wondered if this monitor could be hooked up to the ST, as Moniterm builds ST-specific monitors. -- Genie - P.HAGGOOD2 Internet -pbh@jake.cc.wayne.edu PRODIGY - Not anymore, Jackson. Bitnet - phaggoo@waynest1 Phone - (313) 577-0669 Voice - "HEY, YOU WITH THE BAGGY PANTS!" ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 14:23:15 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-sta te.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler) Subject: People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm (trying) to jump ship (sorry). I LOVE my Mega, I really do, but "power without the price" is dead. Also I run a DTP company, and need compatibility with "everyone else", which means Mac (but I do like the ST better, but gotta make money!). ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 14:27:05 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs .ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler) Subject: Question about SST board from GBS To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep23.171634.17869@crash.cts.com> trag@pnet01.cts.com (Jim Trag eser) writes: >>This begs the question, has anyone run it side by side with a TT? I would >>be curious to see how it compares to Atari's 68030 box. If the speed is >>comparable then users could save big $$$ by purchasing Dave Small's upgrade. > >It was faster than the TT on some applications, but not on others. Of course, >the SST is (supposedly) 100 percent compatable with ST software, which the TT >is not. As the GBS rep said, too, the TT and the SST are two different >machines with different strengths which can't be measured by speed alone. > >But for pure number crunching, the SST looks pretty quick. > >UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!trag >ARPA: crash!pnet01!trag@nosc.mil >INET: trag@pnet01.cts.com I just heard tale (from a generably reliable source), that Dave Small just demonstrated a 50mhz version of the SST board. He said "the only thing Apple has that is faster is thier CRAY." - Sounds pretty damn cool to me... David Butler ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 19:41:47 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-s tate.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!miavx1!rlcollins@arizona.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) Subject: Question about SST board from GBS To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep21.145149.24269@oz.plymouth.edu>, oddjob@oz.plymouth.edu (Andrew C. Stoffel) writes: > [A couple of different(?) questions about the SST board from GBS.] > If I don't get a TT I'll be moving my STf into another case so that's > not a problem. What I'd like to know is..... (I'm currently moving mine to a PC case now, since my power supply blew and I got a PC case with PS for free!!) > 1. What does the SST do for monitors ? Will my stock mono SM124 work > with it ? Or is there a way to use the slot(?) I heard mentioned > (by someone) for a card for a "REAL" monitor ? At the Windsor Atari show, Dave hinted at a graphics board for the slot, but he didn't say anything specific. > 3. What happens to the RAM in the ST ? Does the SST board use it for > anything ?? Some programs will not be able to run in the SST ram and will have to run in regular ST ram. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ryan 'Gozar' Collins Question for MAC Users: rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET |||| Power Without What IS the format of a rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET / || \ The Price!! MAC HFS floppy disk? R.COLLINS1 on GEnie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 14:57:02 GMT From: noao!asuvax!gatech!udel!wupost!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!uc!apctrc!drd !d.cs.okstate.edu!cummins@arizona.edu (John Cummins) Subject: Replacing the internal drive To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <21183@darkstar.ucsc.edu> chaos@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (60208000) writes: > > > Is it possible to replace my flakey 1040 drive with a DS/DD 3.5" drive? Yes indeed.... but be certain it's not the drive cable or something flakey on the motherboard... (Can't be specific here... I don't know what exactly goes wrong....) But a "standard drive" can be made to fit, with case modifications, and sometimes a longer data/control cable. There are recomendations as to what drives work best, the Toshiba ND-352 I used worked great after I glued down a "Floppy Detect" switch in the drive... (Be careful NOT to glue down the write protect detect switch next to it...) Other drives may be available that work great out of the box. Also... watch for a need to twist the data cable.... pin 1 must go to pin 1, even if you have to put a half twist in the cable... Seems that the drive originally in my ST had an "inverted" connector on it. A half-twist in the cable was neccessary with the ND-352. jc cummins@d.cs.okstate.edu ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 23:57:55 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ukma!wupost!usc!apple!netcomsv!bryanw@arizona.edu (Bryan Woodworth) Subject: Sound player for 11khz? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am looking for a sound player that will play samples at 11Khz. Anyone know of one? -- Bryan Woodworth Mail: bryanw@netcom.COM Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA ------------------------------ Date: 25 Sep 91 14:08:34 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs .ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler) Subject: ULTIMATE ST SYSTEM FOR SALE (with additions)! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Yes, in defense of my system, the ISAAC is indeed a "mondo" color card, 1024*768*16colors out of 4096, also a 1024*768 Mono mode that works with Spectre as well as ST software. Compared to the TT (tiny tiny?) 640*480*16colors, it looks great! With all the other add-ons, this system is really great, fast, stable, etc. I'm "officially" leaving my minimum for the system as stated above, but offers are being accepted... Thanks for the interest everyone, and sorry for the confusion. I thougt my Mega would be a really hot item and easy to get rid of, otherwise I would have posted it seperately (first), since the sales of everything else depends upon my ability to get a reasonable amount for the ST iteslf... David Butler "Innagaddadaviddababy" ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************